“In last season’s Eredivisie, De Klassieker had an aggregate score of Feyenoord 10-0 Ajax. Have any other derbies had such a lopsided scoreline across both legs of a season?” wonders Jack Hayward.
What’s worse: losing 4-0 at home or 6-0 away? Ajax got to wrestle with that question after being routed twice by Feyenoord last season. An aggregate score of 10-0 is pretty emphatic, but we’ve seen worse. Or at least read about worse.
“As every Sunderland fan knows, in 1909 the Black Cats stunned Newcastle United 9-1 at St James’ Park in what remains the biggest away victory in the top flight (and Newcastle’s worst home defeat) to take the shine off the Toon’s title-winning campaign,” writes Richard English. “Sunderland also won the reverse fixture 3-1 to complete a 12-2 aggregate, although Newcastle put them out of the FA Cup.”
Most of the biggest shellackings came in the distant past, though there have been at least two big ones in the Premier League era. Manchester United beat City 5-0 and 3-0 in 1994-95, with Andrei Kanchelskis scoring half of their eight goals, and Liverpool humiliated United 5-0 (at Old Trafford) and 4-0 in 2021-22. Mohamed Salah scored five of their nine goals.
A word also for Bayern Munich, who eviscerated Borussia Dortmund 11-1 at home in the 1971-72; a tight victory in the return game made the aggregate score 12-1.
With thanks to Chris Roe and especially Ruben, who dropped a phonebook in our inbox with a note beginning “This list is far from complete …”, here’s a list of derbies with an aggregate difference of at least eight goals. The home result is first – and no, all those Schalke v Dortmund games aren’t misprints.
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8-0 Manchester United v Manchester City, Premier League 1994-95 (5-0, 3-0)
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9-0 Schalke v Borussia Dortmund, Gauliga 1942-43 (2-0, 7-0)
Liverpool v Manchester United, Premier League 2021-22 (4-0, 5-0) -
10-0 Feyenoord v Ajax, Eredivisie 2023-24 (6-0, 4-0)
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11-1 Arsenal v Tottenham, Division One 1934-35 (5-1, 6-0)
Schalke v Dortmund, Gauliga 1936-37 (4-1, 7-0) -
12-2 Sunderland v Newcastle, Division One 1908-09 (3-1, 9-1)
Schalke v Dortmund, Gauliga 1941-42 (6-1, 6-1) -
13-3 Schalke v Dortmund, Gauliga 1938-39 (6-0, 7-3)
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16-6 Torino v Juventus, Prima Categoria 1912-13 (8-0, 8-6)
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11-0 Athletic Bilbao v Donostia (now Real Sociedad), La Liga 1934-35 (7-0, 4-0)
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12-0 Schalke v Dortmund, Gauliga 1940-41 (10-0, 2-0)
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12-1 Milan v Juventus, Prima Categoria 1911-12 (8-1, 4-0)
Bayern Munich v Dortmund, Bundesliga 1971-72 (11-1, 1-0) -
15-0 Nottingham Forest v Leicester Fosse, Division One 1908-09 (12-0, 3-0)
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16-0 Schalke v Dortmund*, Gauliga 1939-40 (9-0, 7-0)
* Ruben also makes the point that Schalke and Dortmund weren’t really rivals when all those shellackings took place, but we’re including them with an asterisk to nip any accusations of typical Guardian anti-Schalke bias in the bud.
Early final repeats
“Ajax and Panathinaikos met in the Europa League third qualifying round last week,” notes Richard Wilson. “This was a replay of the 1971 European Cup final. Is it the earliest in a Uefa competition that there has been a repeat of a major final?”
Last week’s first leg, which Ajax won 1-0 in Greece, was played on 8 August, and nobody has been able to find an earlier example. “The third qualifying round of the 2004-05 Champions League included a match between Anderlecht and Benfica, a rematch of the 1983 Uefa Cup final, but the first leg of that game was played on 10 August,” writes Dirk Maas. “Just like in 1983, Anderlecht triumphed.”
Dirk adds: “In the play-off round of the 2015-16 Champions League, Sporting were beaten by CSKA Moscow just as they were in the 2005 Uefa Cup final. The first leg of that tie was played on 18 August – as it was when PSV Eindhoven and Benfica met in the 2021-22 Champions League playoff round. Benfica gained access to the most prestigious European club football tournament, taking some revenge for the 1988 European Cup final, which they lost on penalties.”
Objects on the pitch (2)
In last week’s Knowledge we looked at unlikely objects that had been thrown onto a football field, from fish cakes to a pig’s head. The creativity of the disgruntled football fan knows few bounds, and there are a few more tales to tell …
“On the day Alan Rogers returned to Nottingham Forest with his new club Leicester, some bright spark from Cadbury’s decided to do a promotion for Boost bars and handed them out to fans in the main stand. Not many of them got eaten, due to Rogers irking the A-Block and being showered in cheap confectionery. He tells the story brilliantly here …” writes Steve McLay.
Giving out free food to fans has never really worked out.
There was the famous episode of sausages being distributed by a local butcher to fans as part of a game sponsorship, with the fans throwing them on the pitch and pelting Dai Davies the Swansea keeper! West Brom – Swansea in 1982 or 1983. @DeanoTheBaggie you told me about it 🙁
— Conrad Chircop (@conradchircop) August 9, 2024
Blackburn fans took things up a notch during a match against Wigan in May 2012. “In protest at Blackburn’s chicken conglomerate owners, Venky’s, a live chicken was yeeted on the pitch,” mails Ian Dodds. “Unfortunately, Venky’s remain in charge!” It took place during a televised game against Wigan. Simon Burnton was liveblogging and included one tinder-dry email:
Hopefully the chicken incident will lead to similarly symbolic protests at other clubs, based their owners’ backgrounds,” writes James Murton. “Ideally at Gold and Sullivan’s West Ham.”
Meanwhile, in Buenos Aires …
There was a fan who threw his dentures at then Argentinos Juniors manager Caruso Lombardo. To be fair they quite toothless under himhttps://t.co/t4815XvKxZ
— Martin K (@Llamadrid) August 13, 2024
And finally, Garry Smith would like to send us back in time. “Let me take you to the north of Scotland in the late-1960s or early-70s, to a match at Highland League club Clachnacuddin’s ground in Inverness,” he begins. “It was (and still is) a compact ground, and there wasn’t much distance between the stand and the touchline.
“The stand-side linesman was waiting for a throw-in or free kick to be taken, and so was standing still, when he felt an object hit his shoulder. Glancing down, he saw a vaguely round-shaped object on the ground and assumed someone had thrown a pie at him. Only when it began to move did he take a closer look … to establish that someone had taken a live tortoise to the ground, only to lob it at him for no apparent reason.”
“Clachnacuddin officials subsequently ensured that it found a good home,” Gary confirms. We’re suckers for a happy ending.
Knowledge archive
“Who were the first football club to have an official website?” wondered Chris White in 2016. “And how about an unofficial website? I noticed that TWTD, Ipswich Town’s unofficial fan site, has been going since 1995, so surely must be one of the first. Also, who were the first clubs to start using social media platforms such as Facebook and Twitter?”
“I can help,” yelled Martyn Amos, thrusting his arm in the air. “Ipswich Town were, indeed, the first club to have a website (unofficial or otherwise). In fact, I used to help maintain it. It was set up in 1990 by Phil Clarke, who worked at BT in Martlesham (near Ipswich) when the web was still very much experimental. He then passed it on (1993-1995) to Paul Felton, who was a student at UEA in Norwich (boo, hiss).
“After Paul graduated, he passed it on to me, as I was, at the time, a PhD student at Warwick (1995-1996). Paul then took it back in 1996, and ran it until 2001, when the club finally woke up to the potential of the web, and got a local company called AWS to run it … There used to be some discussion with Sheffield United fans about our claim to primacy, but I believe that it was decided in our favour.”
Read more …
Can you help?
“David de Gea has just announced his return to football, with Fiorentina, after a year of not playing and being without a club. Have any other top-level footballers taken a year’s (or longer) sabbatical in this way (excluding things like players un-retiring, or mandatory military service)?” asks Derek Robertson.
Chelsea recently purchased their 35th player since Boehly came in, and dont look like stopping , what is the most players a team has signed in a transfer window or with a year?
— Lassa Blanc (@lassablanc) August 13, 2024
“Fourteen of the 20 current Premier League teams are from the first half of the alphabet (A-M),” notes Tom Solan. “What is the most alphabetically lopsided league ever? Has there ever been a league where all the teams were from one side of the alphabet?”
“During the Euros, my son noticed that there were at least seven players whose dads also played for their national team: Schmeichel, Gunn, Chiesa, Hagi, Thuram, Conceiçao and Hernández. Is this a record?” wonders Richard English.
“By my count there are six bald managers in this season’s Premier League,” announces Jonathan Webster. “Is this a record?”
“With Dynamo Kyiv hosting Rangers recently at the Lublin Arena, and the return leg hosted at Hampden due to renovation work at Ibrox, was this the first European tie in which neither side has played at their home ground?” ask Thomas O’Dea, Kevin Scott and others.
Chelsea recently purchased their 35th player since Boehly came in, and dont look like stopping , what is the most players a team has signed in a transfer window or with a year?
— Lassa Blanc (@lassablanc) August 13, 2024
“Colchester United were top of the nascent League Two table when Ben Goodliffe scored in the first minute at Wimbledon. They lost top spot two minutes later, and by the 65th minute they were 4-2 down and bottom of the table. Has a team ever gone from top to bottom quicker?” enquires Kieran McHugh.
“What is the record for number of players released by a club at the end of a season, excluding insolvency?” wonders Keith Clark. “I can start the ball (heads) rolling with 16 at my local team, Darmstadt, at the end of the 2023-24 season. One was rehired, and made captain, so maybe 15 in total.”